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Wednesday, August 29, 2012

Where is "The South"?

Okay, if we are going to be talking about "The South", the first thing is to establish where exactly "The South" is.


One would assume that the easiest way to determine what constitutes the South is the area that was occupied by the confederacy during the civil war.  Let's see what Wikipedia has to say about that.


Okay, not terrible............but not quite right either.  No one is going to call Arizona and New Mexico part of the South and Texas and Oklahoma are a little iffy and what the hell is Missouri doing there?  I could do some research and figure out why, but that would be pointless, because everyone knows Missouri isn't part of the South.  Let's ask Wikipedia exactly what the South looks like.


Okay, so apparently the dark red is indisputably part of "The South", while the lighter red are sometimes considered part of the South and the stripey ones are a toss up.  I see this is going to have to take a little deducing.  Let me be the judge of what should be considered the South. I will evaluate the South on a state by state basis.

1. Mississippi


















Okay, no real debate.  Mississippi is part of the South.  Look, there are even three pieces of cotton on it.

2. Alabama


















Okay, again, There is no debate Alabama is part of the South.  I'll even go out on a limb and say that Alabama may be the Southeist state in the South.  Ask someone to mention  a Southern state to someone up north and they will most likely mention Alabama. "Sweet Home Alabama" is even the undisputed anthem of the South.


 3. Georgia


















Look, more cotton.  Definitely part of the South.

4. Tennessee 








Very very Southy.  We have Nashville, the home of country music,  Dolly Parton and her Amusement park, BBQ and the Blues.  No one is going to take Tennessee's Southness away.

5 and 6.  The Carolinas















Okay maybe this is alot more straight forward then I initially thought.  The Carolina twins are definitely Southern.

7. Arkansas 

















Okay, I have a deep dark secret.  I have never been to Arkansas, but from what I hear it is very Southy.  It has a big weird Jesus Statue called "Christ of the Ozarks."  Here is old slide I found of the statue.





Yep, let's leave Arkansas in "The South".  Plus, there is that cotton again.

 8. Louisiana
 

















Okay, here is the last of the "definitely Southern" batch, but it is the cultural oddball of the bunch.  It is the only place in the "The South" where anything french is tolerated. The food is different, everyone is catholic and alcohol is not looked down on in the slightest. However, the Cajun population shares a deep karmic brotherhood with the Mountain Men from other parts of the South.  Louisiana is completely unique amongst states, but I think its safe to say that the South is proud to claim her.

9. Texas


















Okay, here is a state that is disputed.  Texas was part of the confederacy and has bits of Southern culture to it.  However, one could make an argument that Texas is much more influenced by "Western" culture.  Texas also functioned as an independent nation for a time.

Verdict: Not part of the South.  Okay, don't take it personal Texas.  This isn't an insult to you, but you have your own thing going on, your own unique environment and culture.  Texas isn't really part of any region.  Texas is kind of its own region.  Texas doesn't need to be part of the South, its too busy being Texas.

10. Oklahoma


















Verdict:  Sorry Oklahoma, I am going to have to give you the big buzz.  You are not part of the South.  Your central location makes you a schizophrenic mix of Western, Southern and Midwestern cultures.  You just don't have enough South in you.

11. Virginia














I'm a little unclear on where the dispute lies.  Virginia was the capital of the confederacy.  That fact alone should makes it's Southiness clear.  Maybe it just pokes a little far north for some people's liking.

Verdict: Part of the South

12.Kentucky










Okay, I understand the dispute a little more here.  Kentucky does have kind of a midwesty vibe to it.

Verdict:  I'm calling Kentucky for the South.  I will credit one man for this: Colonel Sanders; one of the most recognizable human beings walking planet earth.  He walked around in a white suite eating fried chicken and referred to himself as Colonel despite not serving in the military.  He is one of the Southiest people to ever walk the planet and his name will forever be connected to Kentucky.


12. Florida 

















Okay, this is a controversial one.  If you stopped someone here in the mountains and asked them if Florida was part of the South, you would probably get a resounding "NO".  There is a little resentment towards Floridians (or Floridiots as they are called here), in the Mountains when they swarm our small towns trying to get away from their own sweltering heat and hurricanes.  They don't even have accents! 




Verdict: While I am tempted to give Florida its own regionhood like Texas, I am going to include it in the South.  Their history of roadside tourism and alligator wrestling are just to rich to be welcomed in the South.  Plus, there is part of Florida known as the "Redneck Rivera" and the worldest largest Confederate Flag is in Florida.

 There is nothing in that picture to show scale, but that is indeed the world's largest confederate flag in Brandon, FL.

13. Missouri 

















Verdict: Seriously, how did Missouri get on this list.  Missouri is not part of the South and it never will be.

14. West Virginia
 
















A lot of people don't consider West Virginia part of the South.  It is pretty far North.  It was part of the confederacy, but here is the kicker: it succeeded from the Confederacy.  The only state to double succeed.

The Verdict: Its part of the South.  Just take a drive through West Virginia.  It is the poster child for crippling Appalachian poverty.  What is more Southern then that?

15. Maryland

















Verdict: Nope Maryland is not part of the South...........but I will make a teeny tiny acception

16.Washington, DC








Wait, what?  How could Washington D.C. the capital of our nation and the center of its fight against Rebel forces of the Confederacy be considered Southern? How could I even put this on a list giving it possible inclusion into the south?

This  is Robert E. Lee as interpreted by Potter's wax Museum in St. AuAugustine, FL.  (See I told you that Florida was part of the South).

He is the one standing up.  He was the leader of the Confederate Army, but no one is doubting his Southiness, right?


Now take a look at the view from his front porch.

 
That big tall thing in the middle, that is the Washington Monument, to the right is the Capital building and over to the left is the Lincoln Memorial.

Verdict: I'm going to say that Washington, DC is the one city in the country that is both part of "The South" and "The North".  Just like it magically avoids being part of one state it magically avoids having to align itself with any region.

So, there you have it I have taken out all the guess work and created a definitive "South".  You're welcome.






65 comments:

  1. I love this post! Now, can you explain to me why Illinois is considered the Mid-West?? I don't think it's particular middle-y OR Western.

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    1. I grew up in the Midwest (Wisconsin and Illinois) and the label doesn't really make much sense if you look at a map of the country. If you look at the country the great lake states look like they are way-way east. Not in the middle and thousands of miles away from being west. My only guess is that it is an antiquated term that comes from when the country ended at the Mississippi River.

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  2. Florida is most emphatically
    part of the south
    It has 'gators
    snappers, skeeters,
    cotton, corn bread,
    monster trucks,
    kudzu....

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    1. Yeah, just stay out of the condos and it looks really southern

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  3. Some thoughts - When I moved to Indiana (from Virginia, but Northern Virginia which the rest of Virginia doesn't consider really Virginia) and learned more about its history, I started referring to it as "the southern state of the midwest." Indiana was a "free" state because they didn't want black people moving there (state constitution prohibited African Americans from settling there until 1866; anti-miscegenation law not repealed until 1965). The KKK had enormous political power in Indiana in the 1920s.

    My dad is from West Virginia and gets annoyed whenever he sees Confederate flags there. He grumbles, "Don't they know we broke away from the Confederacy?" I get really annoyed seeing them in Wisconsin (well, anywhere for that matter ;o)

    Maryland would have been part of the South if it wasn't small enough that federal troops could take control of it to prevent DC from being cut off from the North.

    BTW, you moved to NC from the midwest about the time I moved to Wisconsin from NC :D

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  4. People like to act like the South is the only place racism exists. I grew up in Indiana and like you said it was a traditional KKK stronghold. I remember that there was a KKK rally in the town I lived in the 90s.

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    1. I was born in Richmond and remember when I was around 4-5 seeing the klan march down main street...

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  5. My California-raised wife laughs when people refer to Texas as "Western", since it's very far to the east of where she grew up.

    Missouri is strange, but I agree with your assessment. You can find grits, rebel flags, and the KKK there (just check some of the communities outside of St. Louis), but it also has that reputation as the "Gateway to the West."

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  6. I confess that I have only been to Missouri once when I was young. Maybe it falls in the eternal gray zone that Oklahoma finds itself in.

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    1. Speaking of Oklahoma, I hate it when Hollywood tries to imitate a Southern accent. Usually it's overdone and botched. More often than not, though, it comes out sounding like an Oklahoma accent.

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    4. Don't get me started on Southern accents in Movies! Its like no one has ever been to the South. And why in the hell can't they get Southern actors to play southern parts? What is the deal with Southern parts in movies being almost exclusively played by English actors. And the few actors and actresses that actually are Southern (there is really not that many) totally repress their accents.

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  7. Have you been watching the new season of "How the States Got Their Shapes?" on History Channel's H2? It's now more of a game show, but I thought of you last night when they did North vs. South (filmed in Missouri) and showed a map with the dividing line was determined by sweet tea sales (Virginia was split south of Richmond.) That episode's not on-line yet, but "Hillbilly vs Redneck" is http://www.history.com/shows/how-the-states-got-their-shapes/videos/playlists/full-episodes#how-the-states-got-their-shapes-hillbilly-vs-redneck

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    1. I am going to have to watch that........That is actually a brilliant way to determine Southiness :)

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    2. North vs South episode is on-line now :D http://www.history.com/shows/how-the-states-got-their-shapes/videos/playlists/full-episodes#how-the-states-got-their-shapes-north-vs-south

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  8. I would say everything North of Orlando in Florida is the South. And there is a whole lot of Hillbilia in Missouri, especially around the Lake of the Ozarks.

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  9. Okay, maybe I was premature with my thrashing of Missouri............maybe they need to add a 51st state and split Missouri into two pieces :)

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  10. I think this blogger needs to do a little more research and reading history and less using his opinion on who belongs. Oklahoma would be a prime example. Not only was Oklahoma a confederate territory and the last confederate general to surrender was from Oklahoma(in Oklahoma0, it's where all southrons escaping reconstruction ended up. Some parts of Oklahoma are more southern than the most southern state.

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    1. I used a variety of criteria to decide what belongs. History is not the only thing that factors in. Some parts of Oklahoma may be "southern", but not enough........Sorry Oklahoma, your still out

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    2. Again, I think you may need to do a little more reading. Southern by the Grace of God was written by an Oklahoman. Little Dixie was the number one spot for Southrons escaping reconstruction. It's a large portion of the state. A much larger region than Missouri's little dixie. In fact the southeastern quadrant of Oklahoma is not much different than Alabama. The rest of the state, is more like Arkansas. Almost 70 percent of Oklahomans consider themselves to be Southerners.
      http://www.unc.edu/news/archives/jun99/reed16.htm

      All five civilized tribes fought for the Confederacy and still fly several versions of the Confederate flag today. Like I mentioned before: The last Confederate general to surrender to Union forces was Oklahoman in Oklahoma. All white settlement prior to statehood was also loyal to the confederacy. Oklahoma's state meal might tell you something about the culture.
      http://www.statesymbolsusa.org/Oklahoma/OklahomaStateMeal.html

      The overwhelming majority of settlement into Oklahoma comes from the old southern states. This is true event today. We have more southern baptists per capita than any other state.
      http://philebersole.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/baptist.gif


      Our tea is sweet and we use y'all instead of the annoying "you guys." The portions you refer to as midwestern are vastly baron. There really isn't anything "midwestern" about Oklahoma. Western is not a culture. That is unless you think Oklahoma is anything like California.

      You can leave Oklahoma out if you wish. I am suggesting that you have not spent much time in Oklahoma, if any, and know little of Oklahoma's history and culture. If you want to have a credible assessment of what is southern, you need to have a clear understanding of culture, identity and history. Not trying to be rude, but I was raised as a southerner in Oklahoma. I know who I am.

      I might add that anyone thinking anything east of Dallas, Texas is not part of the deep south is clearly high.

      I'll bookmark your blog and contribute if you would like. I'll even promote it on my websites. However, most Oklahomans are southrons.

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    3. You got me in a corner in the fact that I have never been to Oklahoma :)

      Sometimes state lines arn't the best determiners of southiness. Southern border states like kentucky, missouri and Oklahoma have portions that are southern, yet the whole state cannot be considered as such.

      I propose we redraw the state lines :)

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    4. I agree that state boundaries are not a good line. Some states are more southern in culture than others. I will use this comparison. About half of Florida is southern. Over half of Oklahoma is undeniably southern. I'm not sure what portions of OK you are using to keep it out of the list. Western OK, including the panhandle doesn't have a major town. But the state overall has more people than Arkansas. What factors are you using to consider your picks?

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    5. No strict guidelines.........history, reputation, culture, general feel, accents........

      I'd say that the partial states would be: Florida, Kentucky, Missouri, Oklahoma, Virginia, West Virginia and Texas......while Arkansas, Alabama, Georgia, Tennessee and the Carolinas are solid south.....

      Sheesh, this is getting more complicated then I ever imagined :)

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    6. Louisiana and Mississipi would be solids South too....whoops

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    7. Judy - you need to pick up a history book.

      Both Kentucky and Missouri sent "shadow government delegates" to the Confederate Congress, and were officially recognized by the same in 1861; hence the 13 stars on the Stars & Bars flag.

      Kentucky's Confederate government was located in Bowling Green, and the legitimate government in Frankfort officially declared neutrality. Also, a "Kentucky Colonel" has nothing to do with serving in the military. It is an honorable designation bestowed by the Commonwealth for someone who has rendered service to the state.

      Oklahoma? Are you serious? Oklahoma Territory didn't even exist until 1890 - a full 25 years after the Civil War ended. Prior to this it was called "Indian Territory" before they were merged. To be "quintessentially Southern" you need some kind of antebellum culture. Since Oklahoma was created post bellum, it could never qualify...no matter how many Southerners moved there.

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    8. I do believe the government in Missouri that sent delegates to the Confederate Congress and is represented on the Stars and Bars flag was elected by the people of Missouri. However, it was ousted and replaced by a pro-Union government. It could be argued that the replacement government was a Union shadow government.

      Indian Territory (what is now Oklahoma) was part of the Confederacy. It did have an antebellum culture. There were even plantations there. The Indians had plantations.

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  11. But the area that is Oklahoma was part of the Confederacy. All of it. Just saying. Are you familiar with Oklahoma's history regarding the Civil War? The culture in Oklahoma is southern to southern dominant. But what state doesn't have outside influence in this day and age?

    Oh yes, you opened a real can of worms with this one. :)

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    1. Confederacy isn't my only credential.........Kentucky was not part of the confederacy, but I have included it do to culture, and the existence of Colonel Sanders. I am no expert on Oklahoma, but in researching this article I viewed other people's maps of the South. While Oklahoma was included sometimes (its listed as "sometimes considered part of the South, most people left it off. I may need to take a field trip there and re-evaluate.....

      But as of now, my decision stands :)

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  12. I think Judy's taking this post waaay too seriously :D

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    1. She just needs to realize that SOMEONE needs to make a final decision and I am clearly the most qualified :)

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    2. I'm sure you are a nice guy Jacob, but I'm not sure about your qualifications. :) BTW, Kentucky was not part of the Confederacy. It had a partisan faction that sympathized with the Confederacy. I do think you need to do a little more research. Telling someone in Broken Bow, OK that they do not live in the South will get you run out of town.

      If you are basing this off maps you have found, then this assessment can be nothing more than a novelty. Hit me up if you want some info on southern culture. I have a plethora of knowledge and material on the matter.

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    3. Ummm....Judy, you have seen the rest of Jacob's blog and his Flickr photostream, right? Because as I said, you're taking this post waaay too seriously.... :) And he didn't say Kentucky was part of the Confederacy. His argument was that Kentucky had Col. Sanders, which seems pretty strong to me :D (Though that's not as strong an argument for one's state as having a theme park with dinosaurs eating Yankee soldiers like Virginia does ;)

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    4. Carolyn has got my rating system down pat.....History is not as important as "vibe" is......I include Kentucky as part of the South, even though it was not part of the confederacy.....Colonel Sanders embodies the South, and he is the most famous person in Kentucky............

      Using the confederacy is a good starting point, but it is not the final decider.......

      I concede that I don't have much personal experience with visiting Oklahoma or Texas, but I feel that Texas has its own unique "vibe" and that Oklahoma is more of a crossroads where various cultures meet, it may have a very Southern portion, but its difficult to call the whole state for the South

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    5. Just like it is very difficult to call the entire state of Florida Southern. You've got to visit Jacob. The undeniable dominant culture in OK is southern.

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    6. Okay, I will add it to the bucket list.............Anywhere in particular I should visit?

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  13. Judy is right...too serious or not

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    1. Someone from Oklahoma needs to do a write up and I will post it here

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  15. If Oklahoma is not a part of the South, there is no South.

    Oklahoma is the only state that Obama did not win even one county in the last election... While everyone is focusing on Arizona ’s new law, look what Oklahoma has been doing!!!!

    An update from Oklahoma :

    Oklahoma law passed, 37 to 9 an amendment to place the Ten Commandments on the front entrance to the state capitol. The feds in D.C., along with the ACLU, said it would be a mistake. Hey this is a conservative state, based on Christian values...! HB 1330

    Guess what.......... Oklahoma did it anyway.

    Oklahoma recently passed a law in the state to incarcerate all illegal immigrants, and ship them back to where they came from unless they want to get a green card and become an American citizen. They all scattered. HB 1804. This was against the advice of the Federal Government, and the ACLU, they said it would be a mistake.

    Guess what.......... Oklahoma did it anyway.

    Recently we passed a law to include DNA samples from any and all illegal's to the Oklahoma database, for criminal investigative purposes. Pelosi said it was unconstitutional SB 1102

    Guess what......... Oklahoma did it anyway.

    Several weeks ago, we passed a law, declaring Oklahoma as a Sovereign state, not under the Federal Government directives. Joining Texas , Montana and Utah as the only states to do so.
    More states are likely to follow: Louisiana, Alabama, Georgia, Carolina's, Tennessee, Kentucky, Missouri, Arkansas, West Virginia, Mississippi and Florida. Save your confederate money, it appears the South is about to rise up once again. HJR 1003

    The federal Government has made bold steps to take away our guns. Oklahoma, a week ago, passed a law confirming people in this state have the right to bear arms and transport them in their vehicles. I'm sure that was a setback for the criminals The Liberals didn't like it -- But....

    Guess what........... Oklahoma did it anyway.

    Just this month, the state has voted and passed a law that ALL drivers’ license exams will be printed in English, and only English, and no other language. They have been called racist for doing this, but the fact is that ALL of the road signs are in English only. If you want to drive in Oklahoma , you must read and write English. Really simple.

    By the way, the Liberals don't like any of this either

    Guess what...who cares... Oklahoma is doing it anyway.

    The reason that Missouri gets included in the South is because of the border war between Kansas and Missouri. Missouri was under martial law during the War for Southern Independence, and it had two state governments, although the pro-Union government was more representative.

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    1. I don't know if being ultra conservative instantly makes you part of the South

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  16. And as far as Texas goes, the fact that it still thinks of itself as the Republic of Texas with the sovereign right to secede from the rest of the country makes Texas a defining Southern state.

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    1. This is why I think more Texas as its own region or "country" rather then part of the south

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  17. West Virginia is definitely part of the South as it is a state that was created by its secession from another state.

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  18. The South= The 11 Former States of the Confederacy. So simple. That would leave out the Border States: Missouri, Maryland, Kentucky, Oklahoma, and West Virginia. So there!

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    1. If only it were that simple

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    2. Yeah, it's not that simple. The division between the North and South existed prior to the Civil War. The division wasn't created by the Civil War. States wanting to stay in the Union doesn't necessarily indicate they weren't Southern.

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    3. States wanting to stay in the Union were not as economically and culturally tied to the South. That is why the 11 former states of the Confederacy is the most accurate answer. Those are the most solid Southern states. That leaves out the border states of Maryland, Missouri, Oklahoma, and Kentucky, etc. Also, it wasn't a "Civil War" but a War Between The States, and the division between North and South lead to that construct.

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    4. There are definitely different levels of "Southerness" with Georgia and Alabama having the highest level of Southerness.

      It was a "Civil War" which by definition is a war between separate factions in a single nation. Why do people have trouble with this term?

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  19. Missouri is an odd case, but the best understanding I've been able to gather is that it was an overall Southern state before the Civil War. The state was originally settled by Southerners in the 1820's after the state entered the Union as a slave state via the Missouri Compromise. The original area of state, that which was first settled, was naturally along the Missouri River, which was the "highway" of the time. That area is known as Little Dixie and stretches clear across the state in the counties along the Missouri River corridor and north of it in the east. This area is where the majority of Missouri's slave plantations and population was located. Even what is now inner city Kansas City was covered in slave plantations and had a large slave population. It should also be noted that this area, "Little Dixie", is actually within the northern half of Missouri. Southern Missouri is also Southern, but in a different way. Southern Missouri, the Ozarks, was settled by Appalachian types, mostly from Tennessee and Kentucky. What happened is that after the Civil War Missouri's settlement patterns and development became much more like that of the Midwest. Midwestern culture ultimately majorly diluted the original, pre-existing Southern culture in much of the state. Missouri's two large cities are particularly Midwestern, Kansas City and St. Louis. The most Southern part of the state is the southeast corner, which is known as the Bootheel. There were cotton plantations there and cotton is still grown there. The Bootheel is the northern most area that is sometimes considered part of the Deep South, and that's because of the development that occurred up the Mississippi River within the multi-state delta region, of which southeast Missouri is a part. The rest of southern and central Missouri is hit or miss as to whether it's Southern and is more a transition zone than anything. The northern 1/4th or so of Missouri is solidly Midwestern though, I think, and that means anything north of the historic Little Dixie Region.

    Here are some links to help illustrate and explain my main points and more:

    A summary of Little Dixie:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Dixie_(Missouri)

    A partial list of slave plantations and info on slavery by county for Little Dixie. Plantations and slaves were not limited to Little Dixie by any means, but this list is only for Little Dixie:
    http://littledixie.net/Slave%20Housing.htm

    Here is a map showing how Missouri fits in with the South in terms of religious patterns:
    http://wp.patheos.com.s3.amazonaws.com/blogs/blackwhiteandgray/files/2012/04/Religion-in-America-map.gif

    Here is a map showing ancestry patterns typical of the South in southern Missouri:
    http://hometowncolumbia.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/census-2000-data-top-us-ancestries-by-county1-1023x7661.jpg

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    1. Wow, thanks for the great breakdown. I am hoping on hitting MO in a roadtrip fairly soon

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  20. I'm Texan and I agree with you Jacob. East Texas is where the South begins. We have a proud Confederate history, but really we have a mindset independent from the rest of the nation. Texans first, Americans second is a popular refrain here.

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  21. Mississippi - South
    Alabama - South
    Georgia - South
    Tennessee - South
    Carolinas - South
    Arkansas - South
    Louisiana - South
    Texas - Totally Southern, are you insane?
    Oklahoma - Culturally, probably not, but geographically, yes
    Virginia - Definitely culturally. Geographically can be disputed.
    Kentucky - South
    Florida - Culturally, no. There aren't even accents! But obviously, Florida is the South geographically.
    Missouri - Yes and no. Northern and Central Missouri are undoubtedly Midwestern. But Southern Missouri, in accents and culture, is undeniably the South Branson is a 10 minute drive from Arkansas, and the Bootheel is essentially IN Arkansas
    West Virginia - Geographically, absolutely not. Too far north. Culturally, West Virginia is undeniably Southern
    Maryland - Personally, no, I wouldn't consider Maryland the South, but it wouldn't bother me if it is
    Washington, D.C. - Debateable

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    1. When I say if something is South or not, I am mostly referring to Culture. I still stand firm about Texas. Texas is culturally Texan, not Southern.

      Drive around Florida and count the Confederate flags, then tell me if there is any Southern Culture there :)

      After visiting Southern Missouri, I definitely sensed a southern vibe, but the whole state cannot possibly be considered Southern

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  22. I just moved from Oklahoma to Iowa. In my vote Oklahoma is culturally most definitely NOT Midwest. I would claim South before anything else for most of the state, y'all!

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  24. Colonel Harland Sanders was actually from Indiana originally, not Kentucky, but I realise you didn't know that. He was a business man from Indiana that lived in Kentucky and became famous after he opened up a fried chicken franchise in an old gas station off of the highway in SE kentucky near Corbin. He would sell his chicken to travelers getting gas heading south down the highway. It's a great story, read about it. However, he was NOT a Kentuckian and took on the name and look of Kentuckys culture in orde to promote his products. His recipe, however, is rumored to be from an old Kentucky family that he knew while living there. Anyways, Kentucky is solidly a southern border state, but it's still southern in it's traditional culture. Albeit not the deep south, but I think Kentucky is very comparable to Tenn ( which some folks claim is Kentucky's "sister" state ) and also Va and NC. Kentucky lies on the midwest regions lower frontier so naturally you'll sense a bit of that, especially in northern Kentucky's three northernmost counties ( Boone, Kenton Campbell ) outside of Cinnci. South of that area, all bets are off. It's definately the upland south or appalachian culture all the way throughout the rest of Kentucky. Western Kentucky actually has Cypress swamps in some spots, and even cotton is grown in some areas of far western Kentucky. As a kid growing up, my grandparents from Kentucky even grew Peanuts and Okra in their garden, every summer. They also loved their sweet Iced Tea and BBQ was very popular in the area as well. Tobacco has reigned supreme for years until only recently in Kentucky, as it has in NC, Tenn and Va. Historically, most kentuckians opposed outright secession but were FIERCELY supportive of southern greivances, and voted overwhelmingly against Lincoln in nat'l elections and completely opposed Lincolns emancipation. Not to mention confederate general Bragg recruited very heavily in his maneuvers throughout Kentucky and received volunteers, recruits and supplies in virtually every town he passed through in the state. Kentucky is overwhelmingly southern baptist and methodist, save for a few Catholic enclaves near Louisville and spots in western Kentucky. However this is due to a influx of catholic settlers from Maryland ( which was a slave state in that time as well, but has since lost it's southern identity ) and culturually even though they are Catholic, they are still very much like other Kentuckians, just Catholic. Oklahoma was a territory and Texas was and is very much a southern state, although west Texas in my opinion is more the desert SW than the SE. I would dare to say that even most of southern Illinois, Indiana south of Indianapolis and even southern Ohio has an upland southern influence to it as well

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    1. I've always considered Kentucky a Southern state

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  25. Wrong Jacob. Missouri is Southern all the way.

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  26. Stand Watie was the final Confederate general in the field to cease hostilities at war's end. Oklahoma / Injun Territory has without a doubt Rebel blood.

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  27. Being born and raised in Oklahoma all my life, those who say Oklahoma isn't culturally South have never been to Oklahoma. I've traveled through every state on this list except for Kentucky and Virginia and I found Oklahoma to be just as Southern as the rest of them, if not even more Southern than some. Culturally, Oklahoma is more Southern than Arkansas. I'm from The Northeastern part of Oklahoma and everyone I know consider themselves Southern. I've even been made fun of in North Carolina for my Southern accent.

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  28. Born and raised Oklahoman here. Again, anyone who puts Oklahoma in the Midwest either has never been to Oklahoma PR never been to the Midwest. I moved to Illinois a year ago and culturally, the two states have almost nothing in common.

    I grew up with crawfish boils and brisket, and have a Southern accent. My family is originally from North Louisiana, and I can tell you I feel culturally very at-home there, much more than anywhere in the Midwest. Oklahoma isn't part of the "old" South, but saying it isn't culturally southern is just excluding it based on ignorance. Oklahoma is just as South as Arkansas, particularly the Southeast part of the state.

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  29. You've left out one oh-so-important determining factor in considering what states are and are not "Southern"....SEC FOOTBALL! If any state contains a college that's a part of the Southeasten Conference, it pretty much should get a pass for being considered Southern. Also, any true Southerner knows that there are only two regions in the U.S.: the South and the North, and either you're Southern or you're not, and if you're not, you might as well just be called a Northern Yankee. I assure you: Texans (as well as residents from other questionable states on this list) are most definitely NOT Northern Yankees.

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  30. Just my two cents, but during Jefferson Davis' second inaugural address on February 22,1862, his words were "Our Confederacy has grown from 6 to 13 states", Kentucky and Missouri WERE considered Confederate states, at least by the Confederacy. And that should matter, even though those two states were unsuccessful in seceding from the union. Both would have eventually, but both were under military rule and were persecuted as Confederate states anyway. If the South HAD won, they would have definately would have been part of the new nation. Oklahoma would have made it 14 states.

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  31. Clearly, you failed history, as Missouri has historically been considered a southern state, traditionally. In fact, I had this discussion earlier. As for my expertise on all things southern, I AM FROM SOUTH CAROLINA.

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